Gibson ES-335 history and innovations.
The Epiphone Dot is Epiphone's version of the Gibson ES 335 'Dot' (made famous by the likes of Eric Clapton, BB King, Albert Lee, Chuck Berry, Larry Carlton, Dave Grohl and Roy Orbison) and is one of the best deals today for guitar players who want the classic sound of an ES 335 at an affordable price. Epiphone 335 Discussion in '. Much like a Casino and has P-90s ( make sure you get the chrome ones). A good Gibson 335 is an amazing guitar so.
There are many guitars I've dreamed of owning but the first electric guitar I wished for was the Gibson ES-355. When I was in high school the music store nearest my home had the ES-345 and ES-355 models in cherry red finish and for some reason let me try them out (repeatedly) in their demo room. I would plug in and play through an Ampeg tube amp. I've never actually owned any Gibson guitar from the 335 family but I once owned an Ibanez copy. (I currently own an Epiphone Casino which although great, isn't really from the same family).
- These are styled like a 335 but with smaller body dimensions – more along the line of a Les Paul. The Gibson ES-330 and the Epiphone Casino are not true members of the 335 family even though there is a resemblance. These guitars are fully hollow – no solid maple block of wood beneath the pickups.
- I don't think Gibson is currently selling a 335-shaped guitar with P90s. They used to sell the ES-330, which was, roughly speaking the Gibson equivalent of the Epiphone Casino. But it's not in the current lineup. As for the Casino, me regular Epiphone model is now made in Korea or China.
The ES-355 was the guitar Chuck Berry played. It was the guitar B.B. King played before Gibson made him a custom model with no f-holes. Guitars in the 335 family have been played by Larry Carlton, Lee Ritenour, Freddie King, Justin Hayward, T-Bone Walker and Eric Clapton.
The Gibson ES-335 design is credited to the president of Gibson at the time, Ted McCarty.
The innovations that made it a great blues, rock and jazz guitar are:
- Semi-hollow design with a block of wood joining the top and back and hollow wings in a thinline, double cutaway. This made the guitar lighter than many solid body guitars (such as the Les Paul), yet reduced feedback due to the solid block under the pickups.
- A stop tail piece fastened to the top instead of a trapeze tailpiece (except for a period during the mid 1960s to the early 1970s).
- A 19 fret neck joint allowing great access to the upper frets.
- PAF Humbucker pickups. These guitars started with humbuckers and stayed with them.
Gibson ES-335 family
The original 335 had dot position markers and a mahogany neck. The ES-345 had double parallelogram position markers and the ES-355 had rectangular block makers on an ebony fretboard. Although I can't verify this, I am fairly sure the ES-355 (and maybe the ES-345) had maple necks instead of mahogany. The 345 and 355 also had a multi-position Varitone switch. B.B. King liked this but most reviewers don't think much of it.
More recent additions (and subtractions – models come and go) include the 336 and 339 variants. These are styled like a 335 but with smaller body dimensions – more along the line of a Les Paul.
The Gibson ES-330 and the Epiphone Casino are not true members of the 335 family even though there is a resemblance. These guitars are fully hollow – no solid maple block of wood beneath the pickups. The original specs also had the neck join the body at the 15th fret instead of the 335's 19th neck join. Finally, these have always had P90 pickups – never humbuckers.
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Epiphone Guitars similar to the ES-335 line.
Epiphone developed their own variations on the ES-335 after Gibson purchased the company. The Sheraton was a high-end model comparable to the ES-355. Block inlays for position markers. The original had mini-humbuckers and the Epiphone Frequensator trapeze tailpiece. These were later changed to standard humbuckers and stop tailpiece on the Sheraton II. Epiphone is currently making a 1962 re-issue of the Sheraton with the original specs including the tailpiece and the mini humbuckers. The Sheraton II is still available too.
The Riviera was another 335-like guitar. This model was less fancy than the Sheraton. It also started with mini humbuckers and a Frequensator trapeze tailpiece. But overall it wasn't as fancy as the Sheraton. The position marker inlays were single parallelograms similar to those on the Epiphone Casino. The current model isn't much like the orignal. It now has three P90 pickups and a Bigsby Vibrato.
Epiphone electric guitar designs after Gibson purchased the company tended to be inspired by Gibson models but with unique features and their own identity. But eventually they realized musicians on a budget wanted copies of the Gibson designs and were willing to buy them from competitors if Epiphone wouldn't make them. In answer to this demand, Epiphone now makes ES-335 copies (The Dot and ES-335 Pro) as well as ES-339 copies. These are made overseas and don't have genuine PAF pickups but they are a great deal for someone wanting an inexpensive 335 style guitar.
335 Style Guitars from other Makers
Guild Starfire IV. The Guild Starfire IV had been a long-time alternative to the 335 design from a wel-known American company. Fender discontinued (or maybe suspended is a better description) the entire Guild electric guitar line after they acquired the company. But they recently re-introduced selected electric models based on their classic designs and one of these is the Starfire IV. It is part of what they are calling their Newark St. collection.
Washburn HB35. Washburn has several 335 style guitars listed on their website. The classic is the HB35 although there is now a Vintage model named the HB36. There are also some other lower-priced HB3x models. I can't find any of the large, online music stores that currently sell the HB35 model. The late blues guitarist Son Seals played an HB35 for part of his career.
Yamaha SA2200. Yamaha has made some excellent 335 style guitars. Unfortunately they are not widely distributed in the US. Their website indicates the SA2200 (below) and the less expensive SA500 are still in production. I notice jazz guitarists playing these occasionally. The SA2200 has a gorgeous flamed maple guitar and the series got good reviews back when they were more widely distributed.
Ibanez. Ibanez has a number of semi-hollow double-cutaway thinline guitars that could be alternatives to a Gibson ES-335. The Artstar AS153 is one of their top-line instruments. The AM93 and AS93 are less expensive models.
The Ibanez 335 copy I once owned had more of the traditional Gibson 335 shape than the current Ibanez line. It had a brown walnut finish and a trapeze tailpiece making it similar to the late 1960s 335s. I've been trying to remember why I traded that guitar in. It may have been because something was loose inside – easily fixed. Only, I wanted a Strat – which is what I traded it for. My loss. Wish I still had it now.
Eastman.Eastman makes an excellent line of 335 style guitars. Like everything else they do, these are good, quality instruments, made overseas but to very high standards. They are priced and fit in the middle range – less expensive than a genuine Gibson ES-335 but more expensive than most of the imported competitors. The T486 model has double parallelogram position markers like the Gibson ES-345. The T386 has a dot neck and is comparable to a Gibson ES-335 with laminated maple top for just a bit over $1000. That price includes a hardshell case.
Eastman also has a higher end series with carved maple tops and carved mahogany backs and sides. They have 3 models, all with dot neck position markers. They vary in lower bout width. The T186MX has a traditional 16″ width while the 185MX and T184MX models have 15″ and 14″ widths. These are between (approximately) $2000 and and $2250 – so still a lot less than most Gibsons.
Epiphone electric guitar designs after Gibson purchased the company tended to be inspired by Gibson models but with unique features and their own identity. But eventually they realized musicians on a budget wanted copies of the Gibson designs and were willing to buy them from competitors if Epiphone wouldn't make them. In answer to this demand, Epiphone now makes ES-335 copies (The Dot and ES-335 Pro) as well as ES-339 copies. These are made overseas and don't have genuine PAF pickups but they are a great deal for someone wanting an inexpensive 335 style guitar.
335 Style Guitars from other Makers
Guild Starfire IV. The Guild Starfire IV had been a long-time alternative to the 335 design from a wel-known American company. Fender discontinued (or maybe suspended is a better description) the entire Guild electric guitar line after they acquired the company. But they recently re-introduced selected electric models based on their classic designs and one of these is the Starfire IV. It is part of what they are calling their Newark St. collection.
Washburn HB35. Washburn has several 335 style guitars listed on their website. The classic is the HB35 although there is now a Vintage model named the HB36. There are also some other lower-priced HB3x models. I can't find any of the large, online music stores that currently sell the HB35 model. The late blues guitarist Son Seals played an HB35 for part of his career.
Yamaha SA2200. Yamaha has made some excellent 335 style guitars. Unfortunately they are not widely distributed in the US. Their website indicates the SA2200 (below) and the less expensive SA500 are still in production. I notice jazz guitarists playing these occasionally. The SA2200 has a gorgeous flamed maple guitar and the series got good reviews back when they were more widely distributed.
Ibanez. Ibanez has a number of semi-hollow double-cutaway thinline guitars that could be alternatives to a Gibson ES-335. The Artstar AS153 is one of their top-line instruments. The AM93 and AS93 are less expensive models.
The Ibanez 335 copy I once owned had more of the traditional Gibson 335 shape than the current Ibanez line. It had a brown walnut finish and a trapeze tailpiece making it similar to the late 1960s 335s. I've been trying to remember why I traded that guitar in. It may have been because something was loose inside – easily fixed. Only, I wanted a Strat – which is what I traded it for. My loss. Wish I still had it now.
Eastman.Eastman makes an excellent line of 335 style guitars. Like everything else they do, these are good, quality instruments, made overseas but to very high standards. They are priced and fit in the middle range – less expensive than a genuine Gibson ES-335 but more expensive than most of the imported competitors. The T486 model has double parallelogram position markers like the Gibson ES-345. The T386 has a dot neck and is comparable to a Gibson ES-335 with laminated maple top for just a bit over $1000. That price includes a hardshell case.
Eastman also has a higher end series with carved maple tops and carved mahogany backs and sides. They have 3 models, all with dot neck position markers. They vary in lower bout width. The T186MX has a traditional 16″ width while the 185MX and T184MX models have 15″ and 14″ widths. These are between (approximately) $2000 and and $2250 – so still a lot less than most Gibsons.
Comments
Epiphone Casino Vs Gibson 335
- The obvious main differences will be the poly finish, pickups, electronics and laurel fretboard. Outside of that you have a mass produced far eastern guitar versus a handmade guitar (using that term very loosely!), which in theory is made with higher quality selected woods and components.
I think you eluded to it. It will be largely the age old epiphone versus gibson debate, and which side of the fence you sit on with regards to that.
The new 335's do look a lot nicer than the old dots.0<=' span='>0 - edited November 21^ Not so sure about the significance of 'higher quality selected woods' as so far as I'm aware, even the Gibson 335 body is made of laminated woods (or plywood if you want to be crude) apart from the fretboard & neck.
Quality of materials, finishing & hardware appointments should be better on the Gibson, but where the cost/value relationship differs, I don't know.0<=' span='>0 - edited November 21I played both and bought the Epi as I couldnt afford the Gibson .i changed everything on the Epi except the wooden bits and did a fret level and nut job .It then felt and played like the Gibson so the answer is better hardware and pickups ,tuners ,wiring etc plus a lot of work to make the frets better .Of course the Epi played well enough stock but rattled a bit ,had a higher action and felt less well put together and the pickups were muddyish .I put Gotoh hardware on and Grover tuners .The epi bridge and st op tail were not very good and lighter junk .It didnt cost that much to improve it about 160 odd at the time certainly nothing compared to the Gibson cost but of course it will never be a Gibson .i did wonder whether a Chibson with a similar amount of work would be fun to undertake but as I have a Midtown anyway no point .0<=' span='>1
Do Gibson not use cnc for 335s?The obvious main differences will be the poly finish, pickups, electronics and laurel fretboard. Outside of that you have a mass produced far eastern guitar versus a handmade guitar (using that term very loosely!), which in theory is made with higher quality selected woods and components.
I think you eluded to it. It will be largely the age old epiphone versus gibson debate, and which side of the fence you sit on with regards to that.
The new 335's do look a lot nicer than the old dots.0<=' span='>0- edited November 22
Yes, that's why I said I was using that term very loosely. I think it will be a given that they still get more hands on time than an Epiphone though.Do Gibson not use cnc for 335s?
If you're willing to swap a few parts and maybe get a setup on the Epiphone, I dont think the price jump to a Gibson is going to be justified. I've had epiphone Rivieras, Casinos and a Gibson 335, now I've settled somewhere in the middle with an Eastman. The Eastman is better than the lot.
But the old epi semi's have always had a great reputation. If the new ones are a little bit better, and now with the closer looks to the Gibson, it will probably be more than enough for most people.0<=' span='>0 - The new 335 looks a lot better than the Dot. The specs and appearance of the new model seem to be a big improvement. I hope the Rivieras follow soon.0<=' span='>0
- I tried a Dot years ago and wasn't impressed. Not sure if that's an indication of all their 335-style guitars.Trading feedback -http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/80357/pintspiller#latest0<=' span='>0
- edited November 24Very limited experience here, but I have an Epi Casino 'inspired by', I think ca. 2009, with genuine Gibson p90s. It plays and sounds awesome.
Not a 335 obviously, but I would think that a similar arrangement with a 335 would suit most people.0<=' span='>0 - Describing a 'tangible difference' without being vague is quite difficult as it is usually somewhat subjective as to how a guitar feels!In my limited experience, I have found that a good Gibson ES335 is better than any far east Epiphone model I've played. The difference is the feel of it as well as sound and the latter can only be experienced by trying them out.I will try to explain my thoughts on the differences I have found though. My Gibson 335 feels and sounds very resonant. It's a loud instrument acoustically and the pickups which are quite low output and sound quite balanced in frequency range and 'open' (i.e. rather than muddy, higher output and mid heavy) which compliment the sound. Altogether, this makes the guitar inspiring to play and the subtleties in dynamics and tone just by slight playing variations are more pronounced than any Epiphone I've tried.If you can't feel or hear the difference then it's not worth spending the extra money. That money can be better spent on other gear! It needs to be experienced rather than explained, so definitely try some out when you can!0<=' span='>0
See, I had one of them briefly and it was awful. Natural one. Very poorly finished and felt and played worse than any of the probably 7-8 Casinos Ive owned.Very limited experience here, but I have an Epi Casino 'inspired by', I think ca. 2009, with genuine Gibson p90s. It plays and sounds awesome.
Not a 335 obviously, but I would think that a similar arrangement with a 335 would suit most people.
I love casinos. The best value Epiphone you can buy, just not that IBJL model.0<=' span='>0
Interesting. Mine's a burst. It's my only 24.75' scale, plays smooth and easy, and probably my favorite pickups too (until I get my American Pro Strat!).
See, I had one of them briefly and it was awful. Natural one. Very poorly finished and felt and played worse than any of the probably 7-8 Casinos Ive owned.Very limited experience here, but I have an Epi Casino 'inspired by', I think ca. 2009, with genuine Gibson p90s. It plays and sounds awesome.
Not a 335 obviously, but I would think that a similar arrangement with a 335 would suit most people.
I love casinos. The best value Epiphone you can buy, just not that IBJL model.0<=' span='>0- i own an epi 335 and its a decent guitar but not as good as the two gibson 335s ive had a chance to play, unplugged its just not as resonant and plugged in it is different. i cant justify spending on a gibson 335 as its not my favourite type but the epi will do me for now.0<=' span='>0
- It will be interesting to hear some comments/comparisons when people actually have the new 335 and are not comparing to the Dot.
These new Epiphones (the 335, the Coronet, Riviera etc) have been plugged with videos by Andertons and GuitarGuitar but they have no stock!
I asked for an ETA from GG on the Riviera and they said they don't know.. why put a video out then? So people can go and order one from Thomann? Great business model!0<=' span='>0 - Carbon copy has it nailed. For me the Gibson has the touch sensitivity, and inherent resonance and tone. It's a very expressive instrument and it's very transparent in how you play it.0<=' span='>0
- I had a Midtown before, and the main difference I noticed between it and other 335 style was the intonation. Rock solid all the way up and down the neck. I sold it on eventually though, would prefer the bigger 335 body but can't afford the price!0<=' span='>0
